The problem from my perspective was extensions and interpretations of
the HTML standard by Microsoft making IE less compatible. Microsoft
knew that corporate networks would support IE and intentionally erode
competitor's market share. Microsoft in the '90s was ruthless and
should have been broken up.

Yes, MS was ruthless during the 90s. They were looking to have dominance
and keep their competitors out of the corporate arena. Should they have
been broken up? Maybe. But, in my opinion, they created what the consumer
and most of the commercial world wanted - a single platform to work from.
As much as we love Linux, there are "too many" variations for it to take
hold. It does well in the server arena, but not the desktop. And Mac, as
good as it is missed the mark.
Think about this. Once Microsoft established itself as the OS of choice
for IBM and the clones, it already created a foothold. Commodore, Atari,
and other platforms just could not compete with the common platform that software was being created for.
--Matt

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Real Atari! bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171.0)

As much as we love Linux, there are "too many" variations for it to take hold. It does well in the server arena, but not the desktop. And Mac, as good as it is missed the mark.

Just recently I saw a conference by Linus Torvalds where he pointed out just that. That MS was succesful because there's only 1 Windows in each cycle, whereas in Linux, each app creator has to release an immense amount of binaries to have their app ready to be used in a myriad of different distros. The Cathedral and the Bazaar, back for blood... Still, Mr. Torvalds pointed out that is yet another huge corporation one that could push this culture and logic into the linux sphere, when Steam would have to standarize binary releases for games compatible with the linux platform

Think about this. Once Microsoft established itself as the OS of choice for IBM and the clones, it already created a foothold. Commodore, Atari, and other platforms just could not compete with the common platform that software was being created for.
--Matt

On this last piece of your post: MS didn't "establish itself"... they did some kind of shady move with IBM to have their OS pre-installed in OEM computers for a good few years, until it was irreversible. I know american folks (coming from "the land of opportunity and the free and brave), see these 'corporate moves' as not so much as "shady", but you gotta give that that's not quite "squeaky clean"...

Malvinas.

Islas Malvinas, siempre Argentinas!

... Islas Malvinas, siempre Argentinas.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/64)
* Origin: The Vault BBS (21:4/167)

On this last piece of your post: MS didn't "establish itself"... they d some kind of shady move with IBM to have their OS pre-installed in OEM computers for a good few years, until it was irreversible. I know ameri folks (coming from "the land of opportunity and the free and brave), se these 'corporate moves' as not so much as "shady", but you gotta give t that's not quite "squeaky clean"...

No doubt that MS did some shady stuff to get DOS on the IBM. They have
done (have been doing) some shady stuff to stay on top. There is no way
they could have done this and come out squeaky clean. I have used MS
stuff as long as it has been around, but am not blind to the fact that
they are just one more corporation out to make money. I see the crud they
pull with their licensing (both desktop/server licenses and their
cloud-based offerings).
I use it because that is where the tools are that I need for work. And to
me, their tools are pretty good. Yup, there are alternatives that work as
well, if not better (and cost less).
--Matt

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Real Atari! bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171.0)

born in the 80's but have been getting back into retro computers again,
i miss the times when this was primary means of comms.

i was born in 1991! this is a cooler way to talk! :D

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

I grew up with dial-up in the 90s and 2000s, but never saw or used a BBS until last year. Using one now has changed my apprecation for using the Internet, and has changed my ideas on how to use it to communicate.

i got my 1st pc in y2k and we used dailup until 2002 i never saw a bbs until this year! <3
i compleately understand your views and i hold thre same ones!~

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... It said "insert disk #3", but only two will fit...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

i was born in 1991! this is a cooler way to talk! :D

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

I have always thought so.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: Ricks BBS - ricksbbs.synchro.net (21:1/242)

i was born in 1991! this is a cooler way to talk! :D

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

I have always thought so.

same here! this is so much better than fb.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: Ricks BBS - ricksbbs.synchro.net (21:1/242)

i was born in 1991! this is a cooler way to talk! :D

same here! this is so much better than fb.

You guys still need to learn how to quote without all the personal and server signature crap :) but good to see old-fashioned terminal communication fancy you and at least I can tell you know already that reply comes below not above the original message :)

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Nightfox wrote to Malvinas <=-

Yea, my reply was about that other guy saying that pretty much 'over night', users vaporized into thin air... I thought not seeing that happen here might've been a 'regional' thing... you say it was pretty similar in the US too...

Yeah.. I was surprised he also said he thought about 90% of BBSes had disappeared in 1993, which seems pretty early to me. The BBS scene was still fairly big here, I think until about 1997 or so when I noticed
users started to dwindle fairly fast. I didn't even know about the internet in 1993, and I'm not entirely sure how many people did.

Here, when we moved from Jackson to Memphis, there were still
SEVERAL BBS's running! I paid for a dial up shell account to
use for telnet and such, before we migrated to AOL for 'the
web.' But even then BBS's were still popular. This was 93-94
or so.



... Heisenberg may have slept here.
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Nightfox wrote to TheNerd <=-

I don't remember having such a problem with Netscape. It always seemed like a good browser.

I used it some, but when I found Communicator, I think it was called,
that was my 'go to' WYSIWYG html editor. :-)



... I before E except after C, huh? Weird!
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TheNerd wrote to Nightfox <=-

I started using the internet in 1995 with Windows 3.1 and Winsock. I don't think it was a PITA.. It actually seemed fairly easy to set up. You'd just configure Winsock for your ISP and dial in, and you were online. I did that for a while until in 1996, I got my first job and spent my first couple paychecks on parts for a new PC, which I installed Windows 95 on.

OH gawd I hated Winsock. Early in my career I had to support that for
an ISP.. thankfully not for long before it filtered out of the system. Nothing but pain with a 'user' on the other end of the phone.

I used Trumpet for Win95. I remember how Microsoft came out with
Internet Explorer and Netscape sued cause they were incorporating
it with the OS in Win98, I think it was. I remember telling people
"the TCP/IP stack made trumpet obsolete, but no one is complaing
about that!" :-)

Didn't make any friends that way... ;-)



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--- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
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Malvinas wrote to Mhansel739 <=-

On this last piece of your post: MS didn't "establish itself"... they
did some kind of shady move with IBM to have their OS pre-installed in
OEM computers for a good few years, until it was irreversible. I know american folks (coming from "the land of opportunity and the free and brave), see these 'corporate moves' as not so much as "shady", but you gotta give that that's not quite "squeaky clean"...

Remember bloatware? You'd buy that $300 Packard Bell or HP machine,
and it woud be preinstalled with a TON of stuff that you had to
delete to get system space and processing back. I found out that
the companies PAID to have their stuff installed, and that's how
they could sell the PC's so cheaply.



... Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive?!?!
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Re: Re: computers
By: Jimmy Anderson to Nightfox on Sat May 03 2025 10:44 pm

Yeah.. I was surprised he also said he thought about 90% of BBSes had
disappeared in 1993, which seems pretty early to me. The BBS scene was

Here, when we moved from Jackson to Memphis, there were still SEVERAL BBS's running! I paid for a dial up shell account to use for telnet and such, before we migrated to AOL for 'the web.' But even then BBS's were still popular. This was 93-94 or so.

Where I am, I'd say there were more than just 'several' BBSes still running in 1993. I didn't even start running my BBS until 1994, and I think there were still a lot of BBSes in my area at that time. Mine got plenty of callers.. I think it was around 1997 or so when BBS usage in my area started to drop off, and it seemed to drop off fairly quickly. I took my BBS down in 2000 because it was rarely getting any callers anymore.

What I think is interesting is that I think my current BBS now gets more use than my original BBS was getting in 2000..

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.24-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Remember bloatware? You'd buy that $300 Packard Bell or HP machine,
and it woud be preinstalled with a TON of stuff that you had to
delete to get system space and processing back. I found out that
the companies PAID to have their stuff installed, and that's how
they could sell the PC's so cheaply.

Thing is, you could delete those "tools and utils", and still be able to use the machine. Talk about the OS... what do you do if you wipe out your HD and have no OS to install, to replace it.
Having an agreement with the OEMs to have *your* OS pre installed and not let people find whatever OS they'd like... I think it was anything but "nice".

Pol Malvinas.

Islas Malvinas, siempre Argentinas!

... Islas Malvinas, siempre Argentinas.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/64)
* Origin: The Vault BBS (21:4/167)

JIMMY ANDERSON (21:2/127) wrote to Nightfox <=-

Here, when we moved from Jackson to Memphis, there were still
SEVERAL BBS's running! I paid for a dial up shell account to
use for telnet and such, before we migrated to AOL for 'the
web.' But even then BBS's were still popular. This was 93-94
or so.

They started to die out when I graduated from high school in 1997. People who started to go to college ended up killing off their bbses.
I was the only long term bbs in my area for another decade before i stopped paying for the modem line.

... Backwards and forwards means I know everything about you.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52


--- WWIV 5.9.03748[Windows]
* Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

Nightfox wrote to Jimmy Anderson <=-

Where I am, I'd say there were more than just 'several' BBSes still running in 1993. I didn't even start running my BBS until 1994, and I think there were still a lot of BBSes in my area at that time. Mine
got plenty of callers.. I think it was around 1997 or so when BBS
usage in my area started to drop off, and it seemed to drop off fairly quickly. I took my BBS down in 2000 because it was rarely getting any callers anymore.

Understandable.

What I think is interesting is that I think my current BBS now gets
more use than my original BBS was getting in 2000..

LOL - yeah, I can kinda see that though... In Jackson, there were several
dozen regular callers. In Memphis that was several dozen PER BOARD
and not a lot of them were power users that were on ALL boards. Heck,
I was on a few, but ended up gravitating to about three. :-)


... Dachshund kennel ad: Get a long little doggie.
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Malvinas wrote to Jimmy Anderson <=-

Remember bloatware? You'd buy that $300 Packard Bell or HP machine,
and it woud be preinstalled with a TON of stuff that you had to
delete to get system space and processing back. I found out that
the companies PAID to have their stuff installed, and that's how
they could sell the PC's so cheaply.

Thing is, you could delete those "tools and utils", and still be able
to use the machine. Talk about the OS... what do you do if you wipe out your HD and have no OS to install, to replace it. Having an agreement
with the OEMs to have *your* OS pre installed and not let people find whatever OS they'd like... I think it was anything but "nice".

Agreed... At least now there are usually restore files on the hard
drive. :)



... AAAAA - American Association Against Acronym Abuse
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Utopian Galt wrote to Jimmy Anderson <=-

JIMMY ANDERSON (21:2/127) wrote to Nightfox <=-

Here, when we moved from Jackson to Memphis, there were still
SEVERAL BBS's running! I paid for a dial up shell account to
use for telnet and such, before we migrated to AOL for 'the
web.' But even then BBS's were still popular. This was 93-94
or so.

They started to die out when I graduated from high school in 1997.
People who started to go to college ended up killing off their bbses.
I was the only long term bbs in my area for another decade before i stopped paying for the modem line.

That was when Facebook was college only, right? I wonder if that had
something to do with it too...


... Hey, look! A completely new undocumented fea&%$#*@ NO CARRIER
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Agreed... At least now there are usually restore files on the hard
drive. :)

And "live" pendrive .iso files, that let you "try before install" different OSs and distros... something that was still the stuff of dreams in the first half of the 80s.

Pol Malvinas.

Islas Malvinas, siempre Argentinas!

... Islas Malvinas, siempre Argentinas.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/64)
* Origin: The Vault BBS (21:4/167)

Malvinas wrote to Jimmy Anderson <=-

Agreed... At least now there are usually restore files on the hard
drive. :)

And "live" pendrive .iso files, that let you "try before install" different OSs and distros... something that was still the stuff of
dreams in the first half of the 80s.

I know! I have some old Gen2 MacBook Airs that are too slow and outdated
for the staff to get any use out of. Trying a linux install now on one...


... Catskill Mountains: The land of dead mice.
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