Hi All,

I'm trying to make sure that I'm importing messages with the right date and time based on the message date as well as the TZUTC kludge. What I noticed is that not all messages have a TZUTC kludge and the date of the message is given in their local time.

I've also noticed that some messages have a TZUTC kludge but after adjusting the date of the message to UTC based on that, sometimes the date is still a little ahead of UTC. I'm guessing perhaps that one is just due to drifting origin BBS server times.

Anyone have an idea how to parse the date when no timezone info is given? Am I thinking to much about this and should just be using the date when I import the message into my BBS instead of the actual message's date?

Thanks!

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Re: FTN Packet's message date question
By: slacker to All on Tue Dec 10 2024 02:49 pm

Hi All,

I'm trying to make sure that I'm importing messages with the right date and time based on the message date as well as the TZUTC kludge. What I noticed is that not all messages have a TZUTC kludge and the date of the message is given in their local time.

That's right. It's dumb, but it's right. :-)

I've also noticed that some messages have a TZUTC kludge but after adjusting the date of the message to UTC based on that, sometimes the date is still a little ahead of UTC. I'm guessing perhaps that one is just due to drifting origin BBS server times.

The *date* is ahead, or the *time* is ahead? If the time is ahead, I'd say yeah, drift, but if your *hours* off (enough to put you into a future date), then I'd say eitehr the originating system is misconfigured or someone is modifying the date or TZUTC value of the message in-flight.

Anyone have an idea how to parse the date when no timezone info is given? Am I thinking to much about this and should just be using the date when I import the message into my BBS instead of the actual message's date?

When no timezone info is given, the best you can do is guess that it's either UTC or *your* local timezone. Unless you have some other way to know/guess the originator's timezone (nodelist maybe?).
--
digital man (rob)

Rush quote #5:
Some are born to rule the world, to live their fantasies
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Re: FTN Packet's message date question
By: Digital Man to slacker on Tue Dec 10 2024 12:03 pm

Howdy,

When no timezone info is given, the best you can do is guess that it's either UTC or *your* local timezone. Unless you have some other way to know/guess the originator's timezone (nodelist maybe?).

Depending on what you are doing mailer wize, during a BINKP (and EMSI) session, the remote's time is passed to you - from there you know their local time, and I think you'd know whether it was UTC or local.

Example of what I see with clrghouz:

:+ M_NUL [SYS SkyNet BBS] {"pid":6247}
:+ M_NUL [LOC Medellin, Colombia] {"pid":6247}
:+ M_NUL [ZYZ DavidG] {"pid":6247}
:+ M_NUL [TIME Tue, 10 Dec 2024 07:54:14 -0500] {"pid":6247}
:+ M_NUL [VER Mystic/1.12A48 binkp/1.0] {"pid":6247}
:+ M_NUL [BUILD 2023/01/15 15:29:47 Windows/32] {"pid":6247}

So you can see that David is UTC-5 and his localtime. It doesnt help if his packets have been sitting there a while (created hours/days ago) though - so you cant validate the time in the packet by recalculating it.

It might be helpful nonetheless...


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On 10 Dec 2024, slacker said the following...

Hi All,
Anyone have an idea how to parse the date when no timezone info is
given? Am I thinking to much about this and should just be using the
date when I import the message into my BBS instead of the actual
message's date?

Thanks!

File modification date. This would use the time it comes in to you instead. Might not be perfect but will semi solve the issue

|23|04Dr|16|12Claw |14W0CLW
|16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |20|15Radio|10@|14HTTP://Noverdu.com:88
|16|10 Standard ports for SSH/Telnet |04 WEB|14@|12HTTP://noverdu.com:808 |20|15Global Chat, Global Messaging and Games! |16|10Ditch the Unsocial Media

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)

Depending on what you are doing mailer wize, during a BINKP (and EMSI) ses sion, the remote's time is passed to you - from there you know their local
time, and I think you'd know whether it was UTC or local.

In this case, I'm download the packets from clearing houz for the echomail areas.

Here's an example from the Prison BBS ad from my logs:
[2024-12-13 09:51:34.60784] [9230] [error] Parsed date time: 2024-12-14T03:01:22 is after current UTC date: 2024-12-13T14:51:34 even after TZ correction 0000 :: Using current UTC date for value.

(Correction defaults to 0000 if kludge is missing)

Here's the FTSC date from the packet:

FTSC_DATE: 14 Dec 24 03:01:22

So in this case, it was hours ahead. Clearing Houz is +11 hours. Does that effect any of the packet times that are sent to me?

From Binkp logs:
10:00 [9276] TIME Sat, 14 Dec 2024 02:00:02 +1100

Thanks for the help!


--- NE BBS v0.73 (linux; x64)
* Origin: NE BBS - nebbs.servehttp.com:9223 (21:3/193)

So in this case, it was hours ahead. Clearing Houz is +11 hours. Does that effect any of the packet times that are sent to me?

Why would it? A packet is a packet and will be uncompressed and toss to the BBS. I don't get what the big problem is?

... Get the facts first - you can distort them later !

--- Renegade v1.35/DOS
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Re: Re: FTN Packet's message date question
By: slacker to deon on Fri Dec 13 2024 03:28 pm

Howdy,

In this case, I'm download the packets from clearing houz for the echomail areas.
Here's the FTSC date from the packet:

FTSC_DATE: 14 Dec 24 03:01:22
So in this case, it was hours ahead. Clearing Houz is +11 hours. Does that effect any of the packet times that are sent to me?

So I just had a look at my code.

With clrghouz, the packet date, is the date of youngest (most recent) message in the packet, in UTC.

So if you collect mail regularly, and only get 1 mail packet, then it'll be the UTC time of the most recent message.

If the message doesnt have a TZUTC kludge, then that "utc time" will probably not be UTC, unless the sender sends mail in UTC (and I imagine most wouldnt).

My rational for doing that, was to enable a faster way of rejecting mail that is old - if the packet date has the timestamp of the youngest message (and thus the messages in it are older than that).


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Re: Re: FTN Packet's message date question
By: deon to slacker on Sat Dec 14 2024 09:11 pm

Howdy,

FTSC_DATE: 14 Dec 24 03:01:22
So in this case, it was hours ahead. Clearing Houz is +11 hours. Does that effect any of the packet times that are sent to me?

One of the things I can do - which I've toyed with in the past, is to give packets (and possibly messages headers) in your local time. IE: When we connect, and I get a NUL Date message, with timezone information, by definition I know what timezone you are in and as I generate packets I can use that timezone for the packet header and message headers.

I've not noticed that dates/times are a real problem though (we all know its not reliable), so I've not really bothered.

And not all packet times use dates though (2.2) - and I use 2.2 with my BBS because its a 5d packet.


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Re: Re: FTN Packet's message date question
By: deon to slacker on Sat Dec 14 2024 09:11 pm

With clrghouz, the packet date, is the date of youngest (most recent) message in the packet, in UTC.

Do you support (generate or parse) type 2.2 packets? I ask because type 2.2 packet headers don't include a date.
--
digital man (rob)

Steven Wright quote #18:
Hard work pays off in the future; laziness pays off now.
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Re: Re: FTN Packet's message date question
By: Digital Man to deon on Sat Dec 14 2024 04:33 pm

Howdy,

With clrghouz, the packet date, is the date of youngest (most recent) message in the packet, in UTC.

Do you support (generate or parse) type 2.2 packets? I ask because type 2.2 packet headers don't include a date.

Yes I do (both - generate and parse) - and I am aware of that.


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